Sylvester Stallone and His Friends' Films Podcast

0:00
[Music]
0:30
welcome to another episode of It's a long road the ramble series podcast and
0:36
to say that I'm excited to have a very special guest host today it would be an understatement but I am very excited to
0:42
have John rivy on board today John uh I don't want to give too much fanfare not
0:47
because you don't deserve it but I want you to talk about who you are and and uh what Sly and Rambo and all those things
0:54
mean to you and why would I be excited to have you on board I'm excited
1:00
I'm always excited to sit with here thanks um um and by the way I just got a
1:06
text from John hro who says to for me to give you his best oh wow thanks Mr
1:12
herfeld it's very kind of you thank you John that's a nice way to start isn't it it's a
1:17
wonderful thank you so much yeah so who who am I as it relates to Stallone World
1:25
um so I'm the official Rocky artist for MGM and and Sly um so I work closely
1:32
with with Sly on curating a collection of original
1:38
paintings um to uh fulfill my mission statement which was to retail Rocky
1:44
through ART so that's what I do as it relates to the rocky World which has expanded into Rambo as you know so I've
1:51
been building that collection more and more um especially since I started working with slice Stallone shop and you
2:00
know they have action figures coming out soon okay wow yeah so um their first one
2:05
will be Rambo that'll be their first action figure and uh they commissioned
2:11
me to do the artwork for the box and design the box so I did a painting um the famous mug shot right
2:19
because it's so iconic it's one of those iconic uh images so I use that uh that I
2:25
painted for them which they've used um for the Box artwork which you guys will see it some point when they when they
2:32
finally do release it um and they've since released it on T-shirts that artwork and stuff so the uh the Rambo
2:40
world has been growing for me and I've started going back to reexamine those
2:46
films and especially First Blood because that's my that's my favorite one it's like the original Rocky sure to me you
2:52
know that's that's the real heart of it so um I guess that's kind of a nutshell of who I am as it as it is in the in the
2:59
in the sly world and of course I mean those who don't know I mean I know this but I'm just going to ask it for people that have not
3:05
seen or heard you before you've guessed it on my Going the Distance the rocky series podcast a couple times that's where we met through that you were very
3:11
gracious with your time and and you uh sent me some of your work which was amazing uh and I'm very excited for the
3:17
ramble pieces I've seen some what you've been doing it they they look well of course they look amazing uh now you met
3:24
Sly of course when you present do you want to talk about your meeting you just had the anniversary I believe almost to
3:29
the day of your meeting slide today is the anniv I was going to ask you do you still have that piece of art yes of
3:35
course I sent you it's funny because today is the day um what is it six years
3:41
ago today I presented that giant canvas to him out in
3:47
California um and it was three months prior that he asked me to do it that he you know commissioned me to do that
3:53
piece of work and it was great because he was just kind of ver verbalizing what he saw in his mind what he wanted me to
4:00
do um so I gathered all that information flew back to New York that
4:05
was in LA flew back to New York painted painted painted until I got it right and
4:10
then shipped it out to Beverly Hills flew out there to meet it and like I said six years ago
4:17
today um I was unveiling it to him and it was a great day I meanly Sly is just
4:25
so happy when there's art involved sure and you can talk about art and look at
4:31
it because that's really that's really who he is he's an artist he is an artist
4:36
you know and and and amazing painter yes so um it he was very happy that day to
4:43
to have that piece and uh you know he hung it in Cafe Roma which it stayed there for many years I remember when he
4:49
hung it up on the wall Sly it's great to be Sly he just walks into the restaurant
4:54
and just takes art Off the Wall just puts it around and just hangs painting
5:00
right in the middle of the restaurant love it sure he can do it and then I remember he was looking at he goes I
5:06
need two more one on each side so I went back to New York and that was my my next
5:11
mission but that was um that was really the birth of icons in art which is my
5:17
you know my my Rocky uh initiative where I'm painting all this all these
5:24
paintings to just reintroduce it right to fans and a hopefully a fresh
5:30
maybe bring in some new fans and just retell the story but today was the birth of that today six years ago today that's
5:36
crazy well I'm very happy for you and your success and of course you're you know the Fanboy and you I know you're
5:42
very professional I understand that I mean but look meaning slides got to be pretty exciting it's uh you almost don't
5:49
believe it you're kind of at some point it's like the volume goes down you don't
5:54
hear anything that's being said you're just kind of looking at the scene going how did I get here you know like how did
6:01
this happen you know and then the volume raises back up and you're in it but it is really it's surreal to use a cliche
6:08
but it really is like you he walks up to you he shakes your hand like oh here we go you know here it is you know he's a
6:15
real man in front of me and we're talking that's crazy and it wasn't the
6:20
first time I met him I had met him prior many times but that was a special day because that was the first day that I
6:26
really brought him a paint in sure which he has now now in his home uh down in
6:31
Miami I believe he has that one that's awesome now did he talk to you about what he expects or wants or hopes for
6:38
regarding the ramble side of art uh no we haven't gotten deep into it
6:43
uh it's always been heavy on the rocky stuff but it's it's going to get there
6:49
because um I've been working working on the Rambo stuff and getting diving
6:55
really deep into what I want to do there um and in fact yesterday I think I
7:00
mentioned this to you but yesterday I finished a new piece a new Rambo piece which I'm about to show to him um and
7:09
and I'm sure this is going to open a new world a new dialogue between us as it
7:16
relates to Rambo because I've done something here that you wouldn't
7:22
expect and um is just I really wanted to Next Level this thing I just wanted to
7:28
Next Level it wow and um and I feel like I may have accomplished that so I'm really excited to get into this with I
7:35
wish I could see it I gotta wait I gotta wait till I gota wait till the man sees it before I you
7:41
know I'll send it to you so that you can if you want to edit it in you know we
7:47
can talk about it a little bit you know I'll just I'll send it to him today so he'll get it but then by the time this
7:52
comes out you'll be able to put it in if you want sure well yeah listen I I go to
7:57
um you know me I don't go for the OB right when I do Rocky I don't I don't do
8:02
this stuff you know I'm going for those um those introspective deeper moments quieter
8:10
moments with the character of what what drives them and and things and um I mean
8:17
if you do that with Rambo you have to go to the breakdown at the end of first
8:23
Blood because it really kind of tells you everything about that character
8:29
right and even a larger message to to the world about veterans you know that's
8:35
what made that scene so important remember that was a long time ago now
8:40
and we didn't have a lot of these terms and we didn't know a lot of stuff that we take for granted now as far as
8:46
conditions and the mental health part of everything yeah and that really hit it
8:52
hard you know I mean he came right out and put it right out there for you because this is a character that is an
9:00
Agony uh in many ways you know um if I you know if Rocky is the American dream
9:07
then Rambo is the American Nightmare you know and that's really I
9:12
ever heard it i' never heard it qu like that I don't think yeah because well that's how I see it you know I mean this
9:18
is a guy who did was called upon and went to do his duty for his country and
9:23
this country abandoned the cause abandoned him turned its back on him and
9:28
how do you deal with with that with all the horror that you've been through how do you deal with that as a person with
9:34
no help right with no help and he comes back and in the simplest of terms right he just wanted to get something to eat
9:41
and look what it turns it turns into this whole movie just waned to get something to eat I love that this small spark that seems so insignificant but
9:50
turns into what we know of as Rambo you know and what he eventually had to uh
9:56
turn into um and I just really wanted to try to capture and and
10:04
portray um that that guilt and isolation and the and the loss of self that that
10:11
character unveils in that moment um so there's a lot of deep heavy stuff going
10:18
on here what I'm talking about you know and that and that warrants some deep
10:23
heavy technique this isn't some bright light kind of a painting thing so I
10:28
really har back to um you know I went to school in Italy that's where I learned how to paint and I studied the
10:35
Renaissance Masters that's what I studied and absorbed everything I could and this to me could fit right in to
10:43
that time period to capture this moment so I wanted to create a piece that could hang in the EIT in Florence that may
10:50
have been done by an artist like kajio who who's my favorite artist who
10:56
depicted you know the greatest religious moments from the Bible just so Stark and
11:03
eerily and and striking you know so I I set out to do the same thing with that
11:09
character with John Rambo when he says he can't get it out of his head you know
11:15
he relives it every day and sometimes I don't talk to anybody for a day a week you know I can't get it out of my head
11:21
that really haunts me I don't know about you but that haunts me what he said oh
11:26
it's a very very very haunting moment and you see the pain uh expressed
11:32
through the character ramble of course acted brilliantly by Sly uh that pain of the soldier represented by many soldiers
11:38
going through this traumatic experence like think about where the whole The Shoe Box story and everything I mean I can't wait to talk about that when we
11:44
get to that part in the film uh but the idea that just the blood and the guts and everything is just like our brains
11:50
aren't designed to see this stuff like we're just not we're not meant to see bodies blown to pieces and your friends
11:57
dying around like we're not like that's not what what our life should be like we're not yeah like I don't even know
12:02
what the moral or the religious or I don't know what the word is but this like the whole reason for existence
12:08
shouldn't be to see the inside of our bodies no and that's why that's why I
12:14
refer to it as the American Nightmare yes that character you know um so I
12:20
really you know I set out to do some some really striking stuff to heighten
12:26
that which I'll show you which well you may have it up when we when we do this but um you know I've got I've got I've
12:34
got SL I've got Rambo in that Agony in that outpouring pain and and I try to
12:39
bring the viewer inside his mind of what he sees and I have you know almost this
12:44
crucifixion of him that he flashes back to early on in the film from n if you
12:50
remember when they're going to try to shave him and he flashes back that's a that's a crucifixion yeah so it lends
12:56
itself so well to what I wanted to do so put all of that together and all that
13:01
knowledge I have of Art and technique and what I learned in Florence Italy and that's the piece that I created all
13:07
right well I can't wait to see it I can't wait to see it okay well what is your history with first blood when did
13:13
you first see it how old were you uh were you already a Stallone fan because of Rocky when you saw it what's your
13:19
history with that John yeah I was already a a Stallone fan I mean I first saw Stallone in Lords of Flatbush on TV
13:26
that was the first thing I saw him in because I was also a big Fonzi fan there
13:32
you go so I actually watched it for foni I was like oh Fon is's in this movie you
13:37
know and I saw slly and that's the character that really got me you know with the pigeons and he was the big
13:44
strong guy and just I I never forget him with the football helmets at the end there just whirling around knocking
13:50
people out it is a fun movie yeah we did it we reviewed it on our Channel check it out if you want to those are
13:56
listening we reviewed Lords of Flatbush myself Craig and Doug and uh it's a it was a fun film I never seen it before
14:02
tell watch for our podcast to be honest with you and it was a fun watch yeah yeah I mean listen we have that film to thank for Rocky because that's why we
14:10
got rocky was because of Lords of Flatbush now didn't didn't the producers want the other guy that started it that
14:15
they thought they they got mixed up or something they got mixed up so all they had to view was Lords of Flatbush to
14:21
find out who this guy stillone was right but they thought it was Perry king that's right Perry King and that's why they green letter but to say because of
14:29
that because of Lords of Flatbush we have rocky so that was the first time I saw SL in fact I got a leather jacket I
14:34
painted Lords of Flatbush on the I did their logo on the back of my jacket hilarious I was kind of obsessed at
14:40
stuff sure um and then of course right into Rocky and I was a rocky guy for for all the end of the 70s there um and then
14:48
first blood came out what um same year as Rocky 3
14:54
yes yes 82 was Rocky 3 and First Blood that's yeah so I was already a big Rocky
15:01
guy and that's when I saw First Blood was in 82 that's when I saw it I I don't want to ask how old you
15:07
were but if you don't mind Sharon you can like how old were you because first of all it's a violent film I mean it's a
15:14
hard U it's not violent is as far as like well it is violent but it's not a
15:19
gory violent it's just dark and it's brutal we talked about it on on this podcast the scene of course when the
15:25
police officers were taken out by Rambo with theck and stuff that he made uh
15:30
it's actually plays like a horror film like if you were to watch that segment just by itself and if you were to tell
15:36
if you did if you were to tell like an alien from out of space who came down and saw this film and only showed him that part you could sell that part as a
15:43
horror film these poor poor police officers were getting attacked by some deranged psycho out there just like they
15:50
thought this guy was it plays like a horror film when those cops get maed and stuff yeah they were taking he was taking them out one by one just like in
15:57
a horror film you know one by one takes him out I was 14 okay I was 14 so I'm
16:02
not a bab definitely yeah you know but I'm not a baby no you're not a baby at all uh you're only a little bit older
16:08
than me I was I was when I first saw it on VHS I think I probably was eight or
16:13
nine okay so not quite uh not quite a 10-year-old but uh pretty young I mean I
16:19
saw Terminator the first one at about the same age but uh uh but I remember thinking even back then like oh this
16:24
film's brutal W I can't believe this is Rocky doing cuz I knew Rocky as well you know we still Rocky and so to see him as
16:31
this tough and not scary but just dark and Moody and character it was very
16:38
discombobulating as a young viewer back then to understand that actors could play different roles of course you know yeah yep all right so uh yeah so first
16:45
Blood you were perfect age 14 that's a that's a great age and um what are your overall thoughts on sly's performance in
16:53
first one I thought his performance was you know fantastic um certainly in his
16:59
top five performances probably top three you know um because I've and I've made
17:08
posts about this but sly's face his facial expressions are so
17:15
powerful he's a true actor because he can act and and relay a message without
17:23
saying anything no words needed with slide very few actors can do that but he
17:28
has this beautifully expressive face and especially his eyes his eyes really do tell the story and I've talked about
17:35
this in in the Rocky series you know um and I think in Rambo like when he's um
17:42
when he's being uh arrested you know and having the fingerprint all that stuff and he's
17:49
just he's just got this droopy look like
17:54
he's there but he's not he's just kind of going through it and it's all just happening and he's letting it happen
17:59
he's just kind of out of it you know but he's just his Lang his body and his face
18:05
tell you all that so I thought he just was until he explodes right which we all would do we all would explode at some
18:12
point during that like enough is enough they literally treat him like an animal they hose him down like he's some kind
18:17
of an animal right I mean what they do to this poor man is is horrendous and he
18:22
sits there and takes it but I I think his performance is is fantastic culminating in what I was saying earlier
18:27
that final scene the break which is one of his best I've watched that scene over and over and all
18:34
filmmakers who I speak to love that scene they watch it all the time did you
18:39
has Sly ever I know you've spoken to Sly a few times quite a few times actually uh I'm not telling you to ask him any
18:44
questions on my behalf you can make this your question but does the three-hour cut exist anywhere and will we ever see
18:51
it or do you know anything about this why is he so set against us never seeing
18:56
this like what was what was in that three-hour cut that was terrible I wonder well one I don't know um to
19:02
answer the first question and two you got to remember Hollywood is a very convoluted business and industry and you
19:11
think it's oh it's just Sly doing this probably not probably not there are so
19:17
many players involved and there's so many partial owners of all this stuff to
19:23
get everybody on the same page to want to do something is a miracle it's a
19:28
miracle to pull off and that's why almost nothing gets done because you just can't get everybody to agree to it
19:34
and everybody just pins it on the the main the star oh it's it's theone well I heard that but I heard s say something
19:40
in an interview or something that he he wanted to burn the film he hated it so much now I know he he tends to hyperbole
19:48
a little bit as he's a Storyteller right that's why but I wonder what it was that he hated about his performance that I
19:55
wonder if he feels the same way now maybe yeah I wonder because um he's
20:01
gotten very introspective recently and reflective yeah on his work um and I
20:08
would I would be curious to know if he felt the same because I I I tend to think he probably wouldn't that's a it's a good performance could you I don't
20:15
know if it's his performance that had set him off maybe it's something else you know right who yeah who knows boy
20:22
that I know everyone asks about Rocky but I think there's a lot of Rambo behind the scenes and questions that
20:29
quite frankly I'm hoping get get asked to him one day like there's some real ramble stuff I think people want to know
20:35
I know he didn't create the character but boy he he uh catapulted the character and made it his own on film
20:41
like no one else ever could have so I in many ways he owns that character as far
20:46
as as far as it is portrayed on film and what it's done in the psyche of Pulp
20:52
culture um you know it's it's almost like people are almost convinced he created it they forget that it a novel
20:59
you know right exactly but that's what he that's one of the things he does best is create these pop icons these cultural
21:06
icons and that's really what they become part of the popular culture you know Rambo I mean how many references can you
21:14
call you know for Rambo that guy went Rambo that guy yeah it's a p culture
21:20
call in Rambo you know yeah that's what right are you
21:25
ready to get into the film a little bit yeah all right so where we last left off was um the National Guard used their
21:34
bazooka to blow up to M shaft uh I will say that was that was probably the most
21:41
um in a film that's pretty dark and brutal and serious that's kind of a goofy 80s moment don't you I think it's
21:48
that is I don't know what it is about that part but I would say it's the weakest part of the film and I know that it's comedic effect but it's almost too
21:56
slap sticky was my opinion on that scene what are your thoughts on that bazooka scene yeah well I think they want to show
22:02
how unsophisticated how Backwoods this community is you know I
22:09
mean they barely know how to fire this thing they do it and then they're celebrating taking photo you know it's pathetic it's pathetic it's like the
22:15
guys in Jaws who went fishing and were dropping Dynamite off their boat and then they catch a you know a shark and
22:21
they think it's the one they taking pictures but like it's pathetic you know it's like this this little
22:27
accomplishment you know in this smaller even even smaller town where they think they've done something you've done
22:34
nothing good point all right here we go so now we got Rambo in the Min shaft and
22:40
it should be noted here that the lighting that we see with this filming is all natural light so the it's the the
22:46
flame that s is holding in his hand or the character Rambo this old natural light and that the majority of what
22:51
we're seeing is also is a real mind that they were in with some set around it it's hard to see which is the set and
22:57
which is but they actually did a lot this filming in a real
23:06
mind so I love that little moment there of course where the flame gets close to sly's hand he's that he said he really
23:12
felt that that was yeah it's hot and he had to like you had to let it go yeah
23:28
so what do you think of that natural light that use with the flame as he's trying to make his torture well it's interesting because you couldn't have
23:34
picked a better segment to watch with me because this is
23:40
my favorite technique of all techniques ever in art and it's what I try to do in
23:45
my art all the time it's a technique from the Renaissance called kiato scudo which is severe lights and severe darks
23:53
and that's how you tell a a a dramatic story in a fast amount of time through
24:01
the use of Stark lighting I love it it's what I just described to you what I use in this new Rambo piece I did so how do
24:09
I feel I think it's fantastic I love it I mean it creates the most amazing effects I mean I could paint that whole
24:15
thing you just showed me there with him with that fire I mean think about that think about this black canvas and then
24:21
just him with that flame small off to the onethird of it you know beautiful I
24:26
love it great wellow this very fortuitous you were on for that uh for the sequence of him and the mind so yeah
24:33
awesome okay so now we're getting to the scene of uh uh teasel and Troutman
24:38
they're talking of course about the after effects of which has happened here and before we get to the scene do you want to share your thoughts on the
24:44
acting prowess of den he and Richard krena in this film well Denny he was so
24:50
good uh in so many things you know Dennis Den he I mean he I mean he has
24:56
such a larger than life stat he was such a big man you know so when he comes on look I mean
25:01
look at that look at that scene right there look at how it's look at how much of the screen he's taking up yeah
25:06
compared to everybody else he's so which was so great to put him next to Rambo
25:11
because he's so big in domineer and it's just this large he almost represents this large movement that was happening
25:19
back then against the Vietnam vets and he is so large and just kind of um
25:25
creating an eclipse over these poor guys and he he really it's beautiful I mean look at that it's just visually it's
25:32
great and what about Richard krena and his acting in this film yeah I loved Richard I love Rich Richard ker was a
25:38
great actor you know kind of car character actor but um I think he was a child actor first was he I think so if I
25:46
remember correct he was in the business a long time but he was he was a great character to just kind of tell the
25:53
audience what they needed to know you know from to fil in especially here where we're meeting Rambo for the first
25:59
time as as an audience we don't really really know this character so when he comes on the scene and starts to explain
26:05
just how much of a weapon this man is it it really kind of changes the stakes a
26:11
little doesn't it yeah when he says you know I hope you brought enough body bags and St like yeah we're learn yeah we're
26:18
learning I mean repeat viewings of course the sequels we almost take for granted the ramble character but yeah if
26:24
you're watching this for the first time back in ' 82 you don't know what this guy's you don't know what this guy is what is his deal you know is he just a
26:30
hippie or what is the deal and he's tell you know he tells us without being too you know pathetic about it but he he
26:36
tells us what we need to know and just like I said it changes it so I think here they're going to discuss of course
26:42
what's just happened and maybe what state ramble might be in Dead or Alive yeah buried in a Hole by a bunch of
26:47
goddamn Weekend Warriors thought you said he was the best you ever trained however he may
26:53
have ended up there was a time when he was very special special my ass was just another Drifter that broke the law
27:00
vagrancy wasn't it that's going to look real good on his gravestone at Arlington here lies John Rambo winner of
27:07
the Congressional Medal of Honor Survivor of countless incursions Behind Enemy
27:12
Lines kill for vagrancy and jerk waterer USA I love that jerk water USA
27:19
I and I love Den's um facial reactions
27:25
because you saw right before that that uh that character
27:30
understood he did something bad today he did he did he made he picked the wrong
27:36
guy and he took this way to this got so big so fast and if he could go back I'm
27:43
sure he would take him to the diner and buy him breakfast like he knows this is this was a huge f up he knows it I
27:50
totally agree and I love how there's a part of the teasel character here where
27:56
he's still like here here in theory is a dead a Dead Soldier somebody fought for your country they're both soldier men he
28:02
fought in the Korean War and he's just like I thought he was your best there TR me he's almost like he's he's throwing
28:08
this supposedly dead soldier you know more under the bus by saying Oh I thought he was so great but he was taken
28:14
out by my National Guard man like he just can't let this go he just will give Rambo zero respect yeah because he's too
28:21
deep in it you know how it is once you go a little too far you past that point of safe return he's gone too far and
28:28
that's what that facial expression was saying before he went too far with this whole thing and even trumman saying well
28:33
isn't that great that should be proud well done yeah well done after everything he's done for this country
28:40
he's yeah he was killed here in jerkwater USA for vagrancy vagrancy yeah mhm and then of course here's teel's
28:46
response to this now don't give me any of that crap trout you think Rambo was the only guy
28:52
who had a tough time in Vietnam he killed a police officer for Christ's sake yeah God damn luck he didn't kill
28:58
all of you I love that it just totally disregards it like
29:04
yeah warranted and you're lucky he didn't get all of you yeah you're lucky with just one of you and now we cut cut
29:09
to ramble great back and forth here between the ramble escaping the mine and the the people outside the M talk about
29:15
his state or you know they think he's dead uh I don't think of course trowman quite thinks he's dead yet without a
29:20
body um this flame that Sly or ramble Whoever has this has going on his knife
29:27
is getting quite big I would be a little bit nervous if I'll slide there's no real safety here between him and the flame I know and but and and again again
29:35
look um a good filmmaker your goal is to
29:41
create every shot that could be hung on your wall it's that beautiful it's a piece of bar
29:47
look at this shot for a moment look at all that's right with this image here it
29:54
is absolutely gorgeous everything about it look at the sepia tone look at the
29:59
composition just follow follow Rambo up in that diagonal take his arm down to the middle of the frame and then take
30:06
that piece of wood out the other way just lead your eye right through the frame beautiful and and the fire right
30:12
in the middle of it it I can't tell you how [ __ ] freaking gorgeous this is it's
30:18
okay you can curse feel try to stop myself but damn I just am so excited over stuff like this look no it's
30:24
awesome I love it I love that you're here for this I'm very lucky would just stop that
30:29
damage yeah that's that's very nice um I love that natural light from the flame it's
30:41
awesome so what we have here for our listeners of course he's grabbing lanterns off this m shaft all lanterns on the wall and he's trying to see if he
30:47
can transfer that flame into a more controllable environment but these things don't have he shakes them which
30:53
is kind of funny I don't know why he's quite shaking them um maybe looking for fuel inside of it fuel I think it's the
30:59
way the way Coleman lights work though you have to have that uh pouch that pouch thing uh that you like that little
31:06
um cloth pouch that gets lit so the fuel is required but so it's he's looking for
31:12
fuel but I don't even think you need more than just fuel you need that um I forget what it's called but it's uh that
31:18
it's like a little like scrotum like pouch that you have to tie at the top of these Coleman L yeah you know also look
31:24
what he's wearing I I look at what he's wearing and to me me I can I can lift
31:29
him and put him into so many biblical paintings that's how they were all dressed so it's almost there's something
31:37
so uh to me something so biblical about this film and that character of how he's
31:44
being pursued you know which they did so many times in in the Bible with going after
31:50
people I'm not religious thing but art religion like I study religious I just study it you know because there's so
31:56
much and and he fits look what he's wearing yeah he's yeah he's the Misunderstood uh
32:02
character the same way that the Christ figure was misunderstood and ex killed killed for being the the wrong way of
32:09
thinking in the wrong part of town and you know it's it's an age-old story that you could apply to all these different
32:16
time periods you know we're the Disciples of Stallone so that's right we're there for him
32:29
[Music] this character he comes walson in here
32:34
full of all kinds of good advice and how we should let the goddamn Maniac go loose so he can save our own asses well
32:41
we saved our asses Colonel and we didn't let him go loose the best man lost and he doesn't like
32:49
it oh man Denny he's so good it's every line that he delivers the way he delivers it even though we're not on his
32:55
side as a character Denny he's performance is just everything he says
33:01
and the way he Clips the lines the way he's he's Exposition here like he's basically he's throwing this weird
33:07
tantrum it's like aren't you happy that Rambo's dead but he's kind of not no so
33:12
conflicted over this day I'm telling you and this is just you know how it is when you're just trying to cover your ass
33:17
right you're saying all this [ __ ] to cover what you've done that's where he this character is right now you know
33:23
he's just trying to cover up for all this and and make himself feel better for what's justen happened today you
33:28
know it's just a few hours ago that this guy was just looking for something to eat and in his mind he just got blown up
33:34
in a m in a cave or whatever you know and he knows it's deep down he knows he
33:39
knows it's not right he knows he knows it he's a he's a veteran to he knows
33:44
yeah just the way he tears tra apart as seemingly as he thinks but trauma just stands there like okay blow your lid let
33:50
it out whatever I've heard worse yep
34:00
and then no dialogue just visual so now he's yes so there back to
34:05
of course back to ramble in the mine so looks like he's found some sort of fuel and this is like is that like turpentine
34:10
or gasoline this canister because he smells it and soaks the rag in it then yeah is that where we're led to believe
34:16
it's a fuel source yeah it's one of those things exactly okay so he's taking off his makeshift uh
34:25
now apparently Sly said he still owns that piece of canvas to this day wow
34:30
that's awesome yeah and they actually found it when they were filming they actually found it where it was in the
34:35
film they just used it so this the only piece they had so the uh the caution Department made this makeshift coat for
34:43
slly but he's kept it so what he's about to rip here I'm not too sure but whatever he has he still has the canvas
34:50
from this film I tell you what I wish you'd give it to me and let me stretch it and paint on it oh canvas idea let me
34:57
stretch that on wood and let me do a Rambo painting even if it gives you a portion of it maybe portion of it even I'll do a small one of this kind of a
35:03
thing I mean how great would that be slide for listening come on now that's a great idea can you imagine a John riy
35:09
painting on the ramble canvas that would yeah I mean what would you put on
35:14
it what would you put on it probably your head probably something from this scene because you know how much I love what's happening here with the darkness
35:21
and all uh probably something in here that's amazing
35:30
now we're back to the forest scene tr's looking over the damage and he's thinking I don't know I don't know he he
35:36
survived worse than this
35:42
yeah he's got that six sense where without a body how would I get out of
35:48
here he's saying you know and he knows bro knows how to get out yeah he knows that's why
35:54
he looked up yeah goes up it goes up he knows there's a way out so now ramble taking off his uh
36:01
makeshift canvas he's using it for fuel for his torch I believe it's his knife he's using still is it not to hold the
36:07
torch M or does he have a torch torch now I think yeah it's too big for the yeah
36:17
yeah now this must be a set here this must be the set part here cuz he said they use the shaft the
36:24
real shaft my shaft and part set but this is way the waterers dripping down the way he kind of walks around the corner it's to controlled
36:34
[Music]
36:45
[Music]
36:55
yeah okay right there so s holding his arm here as he fell down that ladder into the water it turns out he actually
37:02
reinjured his ribs his Ribs Right Now were still taped up from the tree fall because you know he did part of that
37:08
stunt into the trees from the cliff yeah so he's still injured here Sly he's insane he's this guy can he make a movie
37:14
without injuring himself no every w't be successful he's gotta get hurt he's got
37:21
to get hurt this guy I tell you he's hilarious anyway so he stumbles down the ladder here and I don't know see I don't
37:26
know how much of that stumble was well I mean I guess it's scripted but he hurt himself again so when he's holding his
37:32
arm he's legit injured here cuz he said his so he said his ribs were hurting but he's holding his arm because it was the
37:38
arm that got injured from the fall in the movie but in real life he's in pain from the ribs yeah
37:47
wow right there there the rib pain he's even though he's holding his
37:53
arm very little acting for pain oh I know [Music]
38:03
now we just cut to the uh the police station people forget this was a this this movie takes place over the
38:08
Christmas holidays another Christmas movie it is it's better than die hard I'm telling you right now Rocky die hard
38:15
and Rambo Christmas and Lethal Weapon and Lethal Weapon that's right yeah
38:20
those are some good Christmas movies put those onas those are men Christmas movies right there that's right are we
38:27
allowed to see that John are we allowed to say that oh boy I don't know if we we say men I am I'm at the age where we
38:34
don't care I agree I agree we don't give a [ __ ] so we're at the police station I
38:39
agree we're at the police station right now and uh we're I think we're g to see teas will come back from his long day I
38:47
think how you doing will oh my call so he's looking pretty defeated and sad
38:53
almost yep just not it's not a day to be proud
38:58
there's nothing to be proud of today this was a day that got away from him this was a bad one yeah we talked
39:05
about in earlier episodes that he lost control of his own crew as well it wasn't just it wasn't just that this was
39:12
all handled poorly was handled poorly under his watch uh that the abuse that Rambo actually took place the abuse that
39:19
took place with Rambo in the police station if you remember will was never around it now we can argue did he know
39:25
about it I don't know if he did I think if he I think if he was truly aware of the the ho Sprain and all that stuff I
39:33
think he would have stopped it I I just think G went too far you know uh yeah and I don't think will just deals with
39:39
that because he's the sheriff right he doesn't deal with the processing part of things so he's just upstairs not knowing this abuse is going on so he lost
39:46
control of his own because he mentions earlier in the 10 sequence a few a few episodes ago a few scenes ago where he's
39:52
like you know if one of my men get out of control the prisoner needs to tell me so there's I I believe him believe he
39:57
thinks all in all this whole day is embarrassing he lost control yes that's exactly what's going on with this
40:06
[Music]
40:11
character see the stars behind him yeah that's a good sequence there yeah he's
40:16
got his own personal medals from his time in the Korean War I don't know what those are I'll have to put those on
40:21
Reddit I I use Reddit all the time but I can put those on Reddit and uh I bet you people will tell me what what those
40:27
medals were for because I don't know what they are for unless you know I don't know but I know what the
40:33
purpose is right that these are two characters that are very similar and yet
40:39
look how different you know you'd think that he'd be able to relate to Rambo better than anybody else there you think
40:45
he'd be he'd be the one to show him the most compassion right because he understands where his guys coming from
40:50
not those other clown cops there but him he should know better and I think that's kind of what goes through his mind I
40:57
look what look at look at him here he just knows and he's tired it's been a
41:02
long day he's got the American Eagle behind him right the Rah R ra USA the eagle his medals I mean and a big bullet
41:10
that big shell casing there too bullet right I
41:19
know we're back to the m shaft this has to be a set here too with that water coming down yeah
41:28
plus they're controlling the wind they're controlling the wind because he's following the wind right that's why
41:34
he's following the air to find his way out so they're they're controlling that to lead him through this that's how I
41:40
think that's how you probably know it's a set but without a doubt the most gorgeous part of the film without a
41:46
doubt what do you think of Jerry Goldsmith's score oh God he's so good so
41:52
so good and not overused you know it's just enough of it
41:57
it's it's fantastic it's um it is uh
42:03
exhilarating and haunting you know at the same time kind of get your Jazz but it's also like what's happening and
42:10
what's next what's around this Bend when he gets through there it's great gold smith is great
42:20
[Music]
42:39
that's a great shot there of as Sly or the ramble character Goods Lower get more claustrophobic and he's starting to
42:46
shrink closer to the water but he has to keep that flame above the water he doesn't have light anymore and the
42:52
camera I love how you know behind the scenes you got the cameraman falling the
42:57
you know slide through these tunnels it's a really cool shot following shot here what if they use a steady cam
43:03
here I wonder
43:12
[Applause] [Music]
43:20
interesting all right so we're getting to the part now where here it comes GH I
43:27
you I don't know if Sly got paid enough even here to do this part cuz he was truly covered in rats and he said that
43:32
he actually legit got bit by these rats oh God so it's incredible that he you
43:38
know did this yeah so here let's see uh watch these are not CGI rats these are
43:45
real animals back this is long before CGI
43:51
kids the sly did say that he would not take this role today
43:57
this is a young man's game you said yeah oh well he was a young [Music]
44:03
man but I couldn't do this as like R your ball if I was an actor having these Rats on your back look they're on his
44:10
[Music]
44:17
back I'm sure Peta loved this scene I was just gonna say you couldn't film this today Peter would never allow this
44:25
to be filmed this way he's grabbing him and thr never happened never happened I love it I sorry I love it look at the
44:31
color palette by the way uh Ryan look at it's a pure seia
44:37
tone uh sepia is U not black and white but brown and white oh like this that
44:43
see the color you see here that's sepia right here that's sepia and and white from that gamut to White um it's what
44:49
they shot The Godfather in most this should be reminiscent to you of The Godfather that color story that was in
44:56
there you know it's very brownish like this okay so it just creates a a
45:05
mood look at them all hopping around so [Music]
45:15
gross probably legitimately freaking out there oh yeah all real like get them off
45:22
you know one take I'm sorry I'd be like one take guys get this shot and G and I I've know remember the other
45:30
famous very famous Trilogy uh that I think in some ways kind of ripped this off uh the Indiana Jones Last Crusade
45:37
which came out after this they had that rat sequence under the uh was it Italy or France or something when the sewers
45:42
and there was the rats and the sewer the rats yeah yeah so um I mean very effective there too but here I think of
45:48
course is uh better done and original is the first the first of the big seen it
45:54
yeah [Applause]
46:03
add some uh fuel to his
46:09
torch no stunt double no sticking his hands right that fire that s's nuts it's
46:16
just do anything One of a
46:22
Kind see the way this is shot it's almost like he's coming out of the belly of the Beast ooh I like that you see
46:29
that that's that's what it's like to me he's been traveling through this monster to get
46:35
out uh we'll watch this bar just for the record what we'll do is we'll stop when he emerges from the mine and makes that
46:41
that's what we'll yeah stop yeah yeah it's a good natural place to
46:47
[Music] stop now this's now this is a funel
46:54
sequence because we think will teasel and at the very beginning he seems to kind of be making peace with the colonel
46:59
yeah but again his own Pride kind of gets in the way by the end of
47:06
it [Applause]
47:12
SE oh miss uh would you do this I'm sh and for my friend a shooter
47:22
wter I if I was out of line before I uh I just want I
47:29
apologize none of that makes much difference now I no I guess
47:37
not I suppose ah I don't know I just
47:44
feel like you were cheated out of your chance I wanted to kill that
47:51
kid I wanted to kill him so bad I could taste it so there's the admission there it is is and I think he's haunted by
47:59
that like why why did I why did I want to kill this kid so badly you know look
48:05
at him yeah he's haunted by it and and Carl trowman knew that he knew that you
48:11
felt cheated I love that you felt cheated yeah you mad yeah you were mad the National Guard did it you wanted to
48:17
bring him in with your bare hands or even take that kill shot
48:23
yeah do sit well with that badge calls he calls him out on it you know having those feelings doesn't sit well with
48:29
being the law man does it oh yeah it can get confusing
48:38
sometimes in Vietnam you can bet that Rambo and I got pretty confused we had
48:45
orders when in doubt
48:51
kill what the hell you're a civilian I mean you can go home to your life and your house and your little
48:58
flower garden you're under no pressure to figure all this out yeah what about you Colonel what did you figure out from
49:03
all of this huh I mean what would you have done with him if he came in would you wrap your arms around him give him a
49:08
big sloppy kiss I love that I love that would you wrapped your arms around him
49:14
give him a big sloppy kiss I again D he the way he delivers that and he's still just trying to justify the character
49:21
he's just desperately trying to get justification for what happened today
49:26
that's all he's doing here would have blown his brains
49:31
up now that's an interesting piece of dialogue there yeah and he doesn't mean it look way he looks away like that with
49:37
that look on his face you know because I you I'm sure you read the book I didn't
49:42
want to I don't want to call you out have you read the book by I have not okay I have not do you mind if I give
49:47
you a spoiler that most of our listeners know yeah yeah so it says would you blown his brains out well the character
49:54
triman blows out ramble brains in the book ah so it's an interesting nod to
50:00
the book uh you know what would you've done give him a big SL sloppy kiss or would you blown his brains out so in the
50:06
book yes it's exactly what chman does he kills Rambo because Rambo needs to be put down in the book it's foreshadowing
50:20
yeah I couldn't answer that until I met him face to face let's s what he does in the book meets him face to face and
50:27
blows him up well there it [Applause] is I guess it's just as well we never
50:32
got a chance to find
50:40
out and trauma's like I got a feeling I'm going to see him again yeah
50:48
[Music]
51:02
oh he sees the ladder did the color palette
51:08
change now look at him almost climbing up it's almost like he's ascending to Heaven look at his face here of like
51:14
absolutely you're right in line with me now with what I I was saying and how he's coming this is this in the book
51:21
this sequence there's a m shaft sequence in the book yes because it's almost as if it's a transition
51:27
moment for the character he's making this journey from one part of the film
51:32
to the next part the next segment of what's ahead of him he's like passing through something that's what this whole
51:39
segment feels to me yeah if you want to take that allegory of religion and the
51:44
Jesus character so what's happened here is the soldiers the Roman soldiers thought to kill Jesus right and they and
51:51
they buried him in the Tomb the tomb was closed but there was no body was seen that's right and then uh then he ascends
51:58
and he comes out of this resurrected and more powerful than ever before which for him is just no unlike Jesus he goes and
52:05
destroys the town that's the whole point his mission's now fulfilled he's now realized this is who I am I am not a
52:11
traveling Minister I am I'm a I'm a I'm a angel of Destruction you know you want
52:17
me to re reemerge as who you think I am well you've killed the wrong guy you know beautifully said ran beautifully
52:24
stated that is exactly what this feels like
52:30
beautiful now the director Ted culture told Sly he says okay I want you to climb the ladder but when you get to the
52:35
top I want you to use your arms only because it just looks more manly so you'll see Sly climb with his arms only
52:40
when he could have used his legs really his son of would look more I don't know more more aggressive and like uh tiring
52:48
okay why just give him a rope yeah good point
52:54
[Music]
53:02
yeah this those first initial steps there he's using his arms only see right there hanging it's just more yeah right
53:09
there there's no need for him not to use his legs so now everyone when they watch
53:16
that film they're oh right why did you point that out I know like there's no reason why rabo couldn't have used his
53:21
legs the steps were there but they just thought it looked more uh more action-packed to just climb
53:27
it's more dramatic it's more in telling of the story of Ascension and pulling yourself out you know right yeah yeah
53:35
all right well there you go that we're going to stop there uh that's a natural place to start uh stop because of course the next sequence for the next guest
53:41
host will be uh um uh the sequence of him taking over the trucks and that big you know sequence going into town and
53:48
teasel finds out that Rambo is not dead and it's it's quite the really going to be balls of the wall action but I'm glad
53:54
you were here for this it wasn't AC pack at all for you but this is a but it's right in my wheelhouse it's right where
54:00
I want to live in this I'm so glad I don't have the next one that won't mean as much to me this means so much L and I
54:06
envy whoever gets the last I don't know who it is yet I don't know who I've got a couple guests lined
54:12
up I they better prepare for that because there is so much to be said for
54:18
that moment and and I hope it all comes out you know because that is quite a scene quite a I I'm not too sure who it
54:25
is I got to look at the calendar I uh the uh the round 14 podcast guys they're coming on soon and the uh and of
54:32
course Derrick Wayne Johnson's coming on soon so oh well you can get him he'd be great for that last yeah I know but I
54:38
don't think it's GNA be him though just just because of where we'll be in the film but like I've been scheduling the guest host and just naturally just kind
54:44
of be there's no predetermination of where those people they agreed to come on the show wherever part of the film
54:50
they're going to be on they're happy to talk about but it it worked out very well for you today yeah um I'm going to
54:56
send you while we're talking why don't I send you the painting oh for sure right you want to
55:04
see Yeah Boy live on camera I just messaged it to my Facebook okay there it
55:11
is oh boy I yeah oh boy just as you described it yeah zoom in there you see
55:18
to the right upper right what's happening up there yeah yeah wow yeah
55:23
right that is amazing I can't wait to show this yeah
55:30
like I said I wanted to really try next level this you know um wow well s's gonna love no he hasn't
55:38
seen it no not yet I'm gonna send it to him later he's gonna love it there's
55:43
just no way he's not boy that's uh just like the part you're describing just as just as you uh boy that's amazing thank
55:51
you and what did you use for that what did you use so people can so they'll probably see it now while we're talking about free thing that I could
55:58
find uh well graphite first I drew everything and I really drew it like um
56:04
you know if you were to like zoom in on his face you could see all the graphite there I left it there and I made sure I
56:10
used a translucent paint over top so that all that dirty rubbing of graphite kind of stays so it's um it's mostly
56:19
acrylic paint and I use some oils too for the crucifixion area cuz that's the
56:27
best way to achieve that and then you know it's it's so much black but there's every color in the world is in that
56:33
black that's not black paint I don't use black paint oh I make it with everything
56:39
whatever if I want it cool if I want it warm you know I build up to that so when you see it in you know close up there's
56:46
a lot going on there wow okay well I wish I could be there when Sly sees it
56:52
for the first time but I know he'll he'll love it there's just no way he won't so that's amazing that is absolutely amazing and that'll
56:58
be available I guess eventually in your in the store eventually yeah okay all
57:04
right uh well people haven't already check out uh John's work on icons and art of course those links will be
57:09
provided with the the video and the audio of all this that will be provided as per normal um and our Facebook page
57:15
will have that as well all right John thank you so much for coming on this uh episode it's been an absolute pleasure
57:21
having you here but unfortunately I have to say the episode is over
57:26
what did you say the episode is over nothing is over
57:32
nothing is over you just don't turn it off [Music]